tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24914433.post7077790163686254838..comments2023-05-23T08:04:48.298-05:00Comments on Conversations In Calvinism: Recent Discussion On Original SinJ. Matthew Clearyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08001238704997219741noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24914433.post-91807929407474451752009-03-04T09:58:00.000-05:002009-03-04T09:58:00.000-05:00Anon:As Francois Turretin would argue, God is Prov...Anon:<BR/><BR/>As Francois Turretin would argue, God is Providential [http://www.apuritansmind.com/FrancisTurretin/francisturretinscriptures.htm#The%20Necessity%20of%20Verbal%20Revelation]:<BR/><BR/><I>But [Scripture] is necessary hypothetically on account of the divine will, since it I seemed good to God, for weighty reasons, to commit his word to writing. For this reason [Scripture] has, by divine ordinance, been made so necessary that it pertains not only to the well-being of the church, but to its very being, so that now the church cannot exist without the Scripture. </I><BR/><BR/>In other words, if God found it necessarry to endow Man with Free Will in order to get a Bible published as He had intentioned, he would. Indeed, this is what Turretin realy meant when he ended his discourse with:<BR/><I> Therefore, God is not bound to the Scripture, but has bound us to it.</I>Moderate Democrathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16381814290849260701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24914433.post-59523380133370546472009-03-02T12:45:00.000-05:002009-03-02T12:45:00.000-05:00If, given the postulates of Mongerism and Total De...If, given the postulates of Mongerism and Total Depravity in which Man can do Absolutely Nothing to further the cause of his own Salvation, then how can a True and Correct Bible, which would certainly further the cause of Salvation for many, possibly ever be published? Further, under the Postulates of Mongerism, Total depravity, etc., how do we even know that we have the correct books in the Bible?<BR/><BR/>I find that I have ONLY two choices, discard the Bible or discard Mongerism and Total Depravity.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24914433.post-36277553365539037982008-12-11T22:22:00.000-05:002008-12-11T22:22:00.000-05:00And Romans 5:12 is mistranslated. All the transla...And Romans 5:12 is mistranslated. All the translations that say "because all have sinned" are biased mistranslations. The Greek phrase is EF W (EPI W) which means either "upon which" (clearly not applicable here) or "because of which." To translate simply "because" is wrong because you are then ignoring the W which means "which."<BR/><BR/>It has to be translated, therefore, as follows:<BR/><BR/>"Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death came through sin, even so death spread to all, <I><B>because of which</B></I> all have sinned"<BR/><BR/>Just as Heb 2:15 speaks of us being kept in bondage to sin by the fear of death, so here Paul indicates that our mortality is the cause of our sins (via the fear of death) and not that we (who did not exist) sinned in Adam.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24914433.post-13563441672469673242008-12-11T22:18:00.000-05:002008-12-11T22:18:00.000-05:00The doctrine of inherited sin is Satanism. August...The doctrine of inherited sin is Satanism. Augustine began the great apostasy when he brought it into Catholicism from Manichean Gnosticism.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24914433.post-74160213126110034002007-10-03T18:23:00.000-05:002007-10-03T18:23:00.000-05:00"You, however, inherited not guilt, but death, and..."You, however, inherited not guilt, but death, and because of that you sin (precisely opposite of Adam)."<BR/><BR/>Death is the result of Adam's sin. But can our sin be the result of that death? in Hebrews 2:15, Paul says that Jesus came to "deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage." What did the fear of death bring them into bondage to? SIN! This guy above has a point. <B>Why are people greedy?</B> They know they will die, so they want to get in all the <I>possessing</I> they can while they have time. <B>Why do people participate in unlawful sexual acts?</B> Again, fear of death. They know they will die, they can die at any moment, so rather than being <I>patient</I> and waiting to go about things the right way, they jump the gun and do things the wrong way. Death includes not only the literal final death of the body, but the creeping death of the body degenerating over time. Hence Abraham sinned in committing adultery with Hagar, and why? Because he was afraid that his reproductive system would <I>die</I> before he was able to have a child, since Sarah his lawful wife was barren. Indeed, <B>heresy</B> also can be attributed to the fear of death, because the heretic wants to be comfortable in <I>this</I> life, hence he makes God's word lax so that he can enjoy all that he wants to enjoy in this life before he dies without having to feel guilty. John lists one of the things that makes us desire to sin as "the pride of life." The Manichean notion that everyone is born guilty of Adam's sins (Augustine, the originator of the theory got it from Manicheanism, the Mormonish cult he was part of prior to becoming a Roman Catholic) this Manichean notion that all men are born spiritually dead is not only disproven by Romans 7:9 where Paul shows he was born spiritually alive, but also by Job who took care of the orphans and guided the widow from his mother's womb. Again, speaking of spiritual death, God says in Ezekiel 18:20 "the soul that sins, it shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father the guilt of the son."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24914433.post-89937836483661839162007-07-29T12:41:00.000-05:002007-07-29T12:41:00.000-05:00I AM A SINNER, WHO SPENT ALL HIS CHILDHOOD IN ORPH...I AM A SINNER, WHO SPENT ALL HIS CHILDHOOD IN ORPHANAGES. I DESERVE TO GO TO HELL, BUT JESUS, THROUGH HIS SACRIFICE ON THE CROSS - DELIVERED ME FROM MY INEQUITIES - I'M BLESSED!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07940745178193985942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24914433.post-40339952734217966012007-07-16T13:00:00.000-05:002007-07-16T13:00:00.000-05:00Right on brother. I am glad to see you standing f...Right on brother. I am glad to see you standing firm for truth.The Seeking Disciplehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10850752852586928341noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24914433.post-73280047259933189582007-07-12T09:18:00.000-05:002007-07-12T09:18:00.000-05:00Hey Justin,Actually I was thinking of something qu...Hey Justin,<BR/><BR/>Actually I was thinking of something quite different when I said that the fact that sin causes death creates problems for Calvinism. I was talking about implications with regards to the Calvinists understanding of the "ordo salutis". But, again, that is for a later discussion and a can of worms that I am not willing to dive into right now.<BR/><BR/>However, I am a little confused by your reference to Job. 42:2. I do not believe that sin took God by surprise, nor that sin has in any way thwarted God's purpose. I only deny that God caused sin, or ordained it in such a way that it took place of necessity.<BR/><BR/>God has always desired to have a genuine relationship with mankind. While Adam's sin changed the way in which that would need to take place, God's purpose in creation was still realized through the reconciliation of Christ's death.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24914433.post-37866050717322962912007-07-10T11:04:00.000-05:002007-07-10T11:04:00.000-05:00Justin says...Matt, I created a Google account, bu...Justin says...<BR/><BR/>Matt, I created a Google account, but it won't let me in. So, I just have to stick with what I've been doing.<BR/><BR/>~~~<BR/><BR/>Great article. You know, it reminded me of a sermon I heard on the radio that talked about a secular group studying infants, and found out that most, if not all, exhibited some form of bad behavior, ex. jealousy, fighting, greed, etc.<BR/><BR/>Kangeroo, you say that death/sin poses a problem for Calvinism. However, not only do I think otherwise, but I also think that it poses a problem for Arminianism. By saying that, "God didn't intend for sin to enter the world" and yet, here's sin, is to deny such passages like Job 42:2.<BR/><BR/>But, as you said, that is for another time.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24914433.post-88981185036901749962007-07-09T11:24:00.000-05:002007-07-09T11:24:00.000-05:00Kd,"You do however believe that because we are "de...Kd,<BR/><BR/>"You do however believe that because we are "dead in sin" we will continue to sin right? So while I agree with your assessment, I can also see some truth in what that brother was saying."<BR/><BR/>Well, I don't see how the Reformed notion of 'dead in sin' can be equivocated to anything that Don argued for. When Calvinists refer to man's deadness in sin they are typically talking about man's inability and fallen nature. Don argued for man's basic goodness and would probably deny inability as defined by Calvinists.J. Matthew Clearyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08001238704997219741noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24914433.post-21603124266455287342007-07-09T10:16:00.000-05:002007-07-09T10:16:00.000-05:00Good post. Death is without a doubt the result of...Good post. Death is without a doubt the result of sin and not the other way around. I personally believe that this brings up problems for Calvinism, but I will leave that for another time. You do however believe that because we are "dead in sin" we will continue to sin right? So while I agree with your assessment, I can also see some truth in what that brother was saying.<BR/><BR/>God BlessAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com